Interview: Jane LaTour on her Sisters in the Brotherhoods

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From the March 2009 issue of Union Democracy Review #114

Interview: Jane LaTour on her Sisters in the Brotherhoods

The following interview was recently conducted with former AUD Women’s Project Director and current AUD $100 Plus Club member Jane LaTour regarding her new book Sisters in the Brotherhoods. Working Women Organizing for Equality in New York City, (Palgrave Macmillan, New York: 2008) 276 pages.

$100 Plus News: How did you come to be interested in union democracy and AUD?

Seven years of working on assembly jobs and the lopsided power arrangements in the factories turned me into an activist. Direct actions became part of my blue-collar repertoire-organizing walk-outs and other activities to gain some leverage, winning small victories, like heat in a plant with broken windows, safety glasses on dangerous jobs. Eventually I learned about Teamsters for a Democratic Union and later joined TDU. Five years at United Parcel Service provided an opportunity to organize a safety and health committee. The leadership of our union, Local 177 IBT, finally got involved after we collected petitions and threatened to picket outside our union hall. My formula for organizing around any particular issue was: educate yourself; educate your co-workers; educate your union. Then-unite and fight!

$100 Plus News: How did you come to be AUD Women's Project Director?

After we organized and joined the Oil, Chemical and Atomic Workers (OCAW) Local 8-149 at the White Lung Association {Newark, NJ and New York City), it was time to find another job. The AUD was looking for a women's project director. I applied and Susan Jennik hired me. From 1989-90 and again in January 2000 to July 2002, I worked as the women's project director.

$100 Plus News: Your book is a series of portraits of women in the trades, and the stories cover different time periods with some going back 20 years or so. You also cover many unions, including electricians, ironworkers, plumbers, operating engineers, firefighters, telecommunications workers, and others. Are the stories based strictly on your experiences while AUD Women's Project Director? Or were there other experiences? How did you come to decide that these experiences should be put together into a book?

I began collecting stories of women in nontraditional jobs during my first stint at the AUD. Handling calls from all across the country, it was clear that women were experiencing similar difficulties. Many voiced the opinion that they couldn't organize until their numbers increased. Since I was working with women in New York City who were organizing in many different and creative ways, I started to record their stories. At that point, I was thinking it would make a useful brochure. Once this got going, I continued interviewing women. Back at the AUD in 2000, I got an invitation to give a paper at a labor history conference in Detroit. The panel on gender and women working in blue-collar jobs got an enthusiastic response. Labor History, an academic journal, published that paper in May 2001. Since the response was so favorable, I decided that a book could add important information to a conversation on the topic. After writing a proposal and finding a publisher, I continued interviewing women to plug in the gaps.

$100 Plus News: Some of the women experienced severe harassment in their particular trade, while in other trades the problems were similar, but not quite as severe. Did you find that more "democratic" unions (ones with contested elections, member participation, etc.) tended to be more accepting of women breaking into new occupations formerly done only by men? Or not?

This is a difficult question and sadly, it seems that most unions have a hard time delivering support for women in nontraditional, blue-collar jobs. On one extreme, some unions actually went into court to keep women out. Others opened up reluctantly, but finally reached the point where they educated themselves about the law and sexual harassment. But the point of all the stories is to show that the women themselves became a force for democracy within their unions. Every woman featured in the book was an organizer-trying to change conditions for themselves and their co-workers/fellow union members.

$100 Plus News: Many of the women joined caucuses both within and across their unions in order to talk about and deal with their problems. In one chapter you trace how one of these caucuses, "United Tradeswomen," was quite effective as a support group but then disbanded, for a variety of reasons. Though NYC is the focus of your book, there are many “women in the trades” groups across the country. Is the number growing? What is the outlook for these organizations in terms having having an effect on today's workplace and labor movement? How effective do you think these groups are or have been, and can be?

The first chapter, "Rosie's daughters," takes a look at the history of women who entered these jobs. It shows how they formed these organizations and many of them are still in existence. But most of them are closer to the model of NEW-Nontraditional Employment for Women-in New York City, rather than the militant model of United Tradeswomen, the focus of chapter 2. These organizations, such as Cleveland's Hard Hatted Women, Chicago Women In The Trades (CWIT), and Women In Non-Traditional Employment Roles (WINTER), provide pre-apprenticeship training, and clue their recruits into what to expect as they enter these fields that are still predominantly male. They also provide an incredible service as advocates on many fronts for women in nontraditional blue-collar jobs. Women in the construction and mechanical trades and women in the fire services have all benefited from this work. CWIT, WINTER, and numerous other organizations also provide a critical service in arguing for federal, state and local funding for training, etc. Since women have been working these jobs for three decades, these groups constitute an incredible repository of knowledge that they put to use in many important ways.

$100 Plus News: The chapter on telecommuncations is interesting because so much is going on: women organizing and getting their story out through the union member newsletter, women fighting harassment on the job, but having to accept legal settlements with secrecy provisions, and a major EEOC consent decree that did, "result in real gains," in your words. For telecommunications workers, it seemed that the ability to battle from within the union to end gender discrimination by a company was limited -- that legal action, such as the EEOC consent decree at the federal level, was needed. Do you believe this is still true today (limited ability to fight from within the union)?

It is still the case that women working in nontraditional blue-collar jobs are part of a very small minority and that organizing and working together is still critically important within their unions. While progress has been made, there is still a lot of work that needs to be done. My hope is that the book can serve as a conversation piece to focus attention on the topic. While the numbers remain so low, the barriers are still there. Even awareness that women are working in these jobs remains low. If young women don't see evidence that women work in these jobs, they don't explore the opportunity to enter these well-paid jobs that provide benefits and a career ladder. The small numbers mean that women are still basically pioneers and are isolated inside a pink hard-hat ghetto.

$100 Plus News: Might the recent signing into law of the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act provide an impetus to raise some of these issues again from within the union?

The Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act shines a light on the fact of pay discrimination. More women discover they have rights. And the story of this courageous woman, like the women featured in "Sisters," provides a wonderful model for the fight that must be waged to win equality.

$100 Plus News: Are you able to actively promote the book? Tell us about the efforts you are making.

Sisters in the Brotherhoods is being published in a paper edition on July 21. In addition to doing some speaking engagements, reviews are coming out that will expand the audience. The fact that the publisher overpriced the hardcover edition has limited its sales, but not its appeal. But the combination of favorable reviews, word of mouth, my "book tour," and opportunities like this interview in your AUD publication, helps to get the word out. I also have a Web site to post my speaking events to -- www.JaneLatour.com. After July 21st I will be doing even more speaking around the country.

$100 Plus News: Thanks, Jane!